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Date gone wrong (feedback would be nice)


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Alright so today, did about 5 sets in the morning. Nothing really came of it.

Girl walks past me with headphones on. Gives me an IOI so I open with her. Ask her if there is a big supermarket near here.

She goes with me to the supermarket (even though she buys nothing) and we chat the whole time. I get her number at the end and arrange a date for that evening. When I said goodbye, I broke the touch barrier by holding her hand and covering the hand with the other. I lingered there for a while and she went with it/was receptive.

Even she said, 'we can go for a date later' when I got her digits so I thought 'this might be on.'

We get to location one and I start escalation during the chat. I started with putting my hand over her tattoo on her wrist when I asked about that. I mentioned she had fingers like pianists and did the hand comparison size thing. I made a comment about her being thin and gave a little thigh squeeze. I also stroked her shoulder a bit. I also laid my hand over her back at one point. Maybe this was overkill and one or two of these things would have been fine.

Anyway, at one point she stops me and says 'you're doing this' and stroked my shoulder and then said, 'I don't know why you're doing this. This is like a romantic thing.'

I said, 'what? We're friends' (maybe I shouldn't have said that)

She said, 'friends don't do this.' (stroking my shoulder again). I asked her if she wanted me to stop. She said yes and so I did.

I then pretending I didn't really know what she was talking about (again maybe not a good idea)

Then she said, 'listen. I think you've got the wrong idea. I just want to be friends. I don't want a one night stand or a short term relationship. What you're doing seems like you want that'

I mentioned that I thought it was weird she wanted to go on a trip to the beach with me just as a friend (she mentioned this earlier).

Then she said that was totally normal.

I then called her out for wanting the relationship totally on her terms (this sounds a bit serious but she found it somewhat amusing a point). I mentioned that it was OK in her eyes for me to sacrifice what I want for her, but she couldn't do the same - so it was imbalanced.

She started talking about how much foreigners just want sex and one night stands and people in her country (place in the Balkans) people don't do that. Nobody she knows does that. And she hates it.

She then made the point that if I wasn't with her, I'd just be with somebody else. If I didn't talk to her, I'd just talk to someone else. She said I just wanted a girlfriend and anyone would be OK for me and there are other girls like her I could meet.

She then asked me directly if I had been on any other dates with local girls her, to which I reluctantly said I had.

She told me if she felt a spark with someone, then that was different and maybe she would consider a relationship. I asked her if she felt a spark with me. She said no. I asked her why she came out then, and she said that she would be afraid to go out with someone she had a spark with. She only came out with me because she did NOT feel a spark and wanted to be friends with me (painful to hear but there you go).

I didn't really want to get embroiled in this lengthy chat about being friends with a girl and the benefits of that. And I kept thinking, 'is this a test?' But from what she told me she really does take chastity very very seriously and doesn't believe in casual sex. 

But even then I think, 'maybe if I'd said X I could have saved this date' or 'If I had better game, I'd have turned things around.'

After that long chat ended, the tension was taken out of the date. We still hung out for a few hours I guess as platonic friends - so I guess she 'won'

The only touch after that was a final hand hold and hug goodbye.

I tend to think some girls are very conservative and there's little that can be done, but I'm sure there are masters who would have been able to turn this or said the right things maybe to keep it playful and light instead of an almost like two lawyers going at it type situation.

So a long post but I genuinely would like feedback on a few things:

1) dating very conservative girls (do you 'adapt to their frame' or what exactly is best?)

2) When you are called out for touch

3) When a girl almost immediately starts talking about how much she hates casual sex/one night stands  (and can it be turned?)

Maybe this really was just a failure waiting to happen....

In a way I am glad to know within the first hour of the date instead of at the kiss close attempt of date 2 but still...

I'm really quite bad at escalation in general and tend to either not do it at all or sort of overdo it in an attempt to overcompensate for a previous date failure.

 

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36 minutes ago, Mr. Tippy said:

Alright so today, did about 5 sets in the morning. Nothing really came of it.

Girl walks past me with headphones on. Gives me an IOI so I open with her. Ask her if there is a big supermarket near here.

She goes with me to the supermarket (even though she buys nothing) and we chat the whole time. I get her number at the end and arrange a date for that evening. When I said goodbye, I broke the touch barrier by holding her hand and covering the hand with the other. I lingered there for a while and she went with it/was receptive.

Even she said, 'we can go for a date later' when I got her digits so I thought 'this might be on.'

We get to location one and I start escalation during the chat. I started with putting my hand over her tattoo on her wrist when I asked about that. I mentioned she had fingers like pianists and did the hand comparison size thing. I made a comment about her being thin and gave a little thigh squeeze. I also stroked her shoulder a bit. I also laid my hand over her back at one point. Maybe this was overkill and one or two of these things would have been fine.

Anyway, at one point she stops me and says 'you're doing this' and stroked my shoulder and then said, 'I don't know why you're doing this. This is like a romantic thing.'

I said, 'what? We're friends' (maybe I shouldn't have said that)

She said, 'friends don't do this.' (stroking my shoulder again). I asked her if she wanted me to stop. She said yes and so I did.

I then pretending I didn't really know what she was talking about (again maybe not a good idea)

Then she said, 'listen. I think you've got the wrong idea. I just want to be friends. I don't want a one night stand or a short term relationship. What you're doing seems like you want that'

I mentioned that I thought it was weird she wanted to go on a trip to the beach with me just as a friend (she mentioned this earlier).

Then she said that was totally normal.

I then called her out for wanting the relationship totally on her terms (this sounds a bit serious but she found it somewhat amusing a point). I mentioned that it was OK in her eyes for me to sacrifice what I want for her, but she couldn't do the same - so it was imbalanced.

She started talking about how much foreigners just want sex and one night stands and people in her country (place in the Balkans) people don't do that. Nobody she knows does that. And she hates it.

She then made the point that if I wasn't with her, I'd just be with somebody else. If I didn't talk to her, I'd just talk to someone else. She said I just wanted a girlfriend and anyone would be OK for me and there are other girls like her I could meet.

She then asked me directly if I had been on any other dates with local girls her, to which I reluctantly said I had.

She told me if she felt a spark with someone, then that was different and maybe she would consider a relationship. I asked her if she felt a spark with me. She said no. I asked her why she came out then, and she said that she would be afraid to go out with someone she had a spark with. She only came out with me because she did NOT feel a spark and wanted to be friends with me (painful to hear but there you go).

I didn't really want to get embroiled in this lengthy chat about being friends with a girl and the benefits of that. And I kept thinking, 'is this a test?' But from what she told me she really does take chastity very very seriously and doesn't believe in casual sex. 

But even then I think, 'maybe if I'd said X I could have saved this date' or 'If I had better game, I'd have turned things around.'

After that long chat ended, the tension was taken out of the date. We still hung out for a few hours I guess as platonic friends - so I guess she 'won'

The only touch after that was a final hand hold and hug goodbye.

I tend to think some girls are very conservative and there's little that can be done, but I'm sure there are masters who would have been able to turn this or said the right things maybe to keep it playful and light instead of an almost like two lawyers going at it type situation.

So a long post but I genuinely would like feedback on a few things:

1) dating very conservative girls (do you 'adapt to their frame' or what exactly is best?)

2) When you are called out for touch

3) When a girl almost immediately starts talking about how much she hates casual sex/one night stands  (and can it be turned?)

Maybe this really was just a failure waiting to happen....

In a way I am glad to know within the first hour of the date instead of at the kiss close attempt of date 2 but still...

I'm really quite bad at escalation in general and tend to either not do it at all or sort of overdo it in an attempt to overcompensate for a previous date failure.

 

Maybe you did over do it with the physical escalation, it could've been too much, too soon (as you picked up on),  She obviously found you attractive as she wouldn't have come out on the date.

When she called you out on touching her shoulder, you should've just brushed it off by changing topic, or made a joke of it, the "we're friends" line killed it, as you're kind of acknowledging that the game is up and you've been found out (but again, you intuitively knew this).  Just try to play it differently next time.

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7 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

So a long post but I genuinely would like feedback on a few things:

1) dating very conservative girls (do you 'adapt to their frame' or what exactly is best?)

It reminds me of a meeting in Finland.  I alternated kino and comfort, and the girl returned my kino to me but beyond the flirtation did not want to go further.  I think some girls are just afraid to tie up after sex.  That there was attraction but that it blocked on the consequences. 

Or some girls just send mixed signals.

Or less likely, I would say it's a shit test that shouldn't be taken seriously.  Maybe the result would have been the same but you wouldn't have had a heady conversation with her.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

2) When you are called out for touch

 

If a girl doesn't want sex, she won't have sex, even if you are naked in a bed with her. If anyone has a technique on this forum, I'd love to hear about it.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

I asked her if she felt a spark with me. She said no

Don't ask mate.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

Then she said, 'listen. I think you've got the wrong idea. I just want to be friends. I don't want a one night stand or a short term relationship. What you're doing seems like you want that'

I will have 2 routines here.

Anytime in the conversation :

"My last short relationship was with a super cool girl who (was on erasmus, Estonian, French...) we stayed a few days together. Now she has gone back to her country, we are still good friends.

 

When she says you want sex :

"Yes I want that (think a bit) actually I don't now I changed my mind".

 

It seems that the conversation has become a logical argument. I guess the whole conversation wasn't that serious but when you move from emotion to intellect in the discussion, it's not a good sign.

 

7 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

3) When a girl almost immediately starts talking about how much she hates casual sex/one night stands  (and can it be turned?)

I would agree wity her and keep escalating. And building more confort.

 

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10 hours ago, HaveACuppaTea said:

Maybe you did over do it with the physical escalation, it could've been too much, too soon (as you picked up on),  She obviously found you attractive as she wouldn't have come out on the date.

When she called you out on touching her shoulder, you should've just brushed it off by changing topic, or made a joke of it, the "we're friends" line killed it, as you're kind of acknowledging that the game is up and you've been found out (but again, you intuitively knew this).  Just try to play it differently next time.

Thanks for the comment.

With the 'we're friends' comment. The thing is...I  am always on dates going against how I naturally act. I'm not naturally fake confident. My humour style veers towards self-deprecation. So it is this mental exercise in not being myself (obviously the discussion on what my true self is and how my dominant social self that has been caused by brainwashing is another topic).

So when she called me out, the 'we're friends' line was an attempt to be playful but it just came off wrong. In my head, I am screaming 'say something funny that shows you don't care' but the actual lines I come up with often are not the right ones to convey that.

 

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3 hours ago, Jojo said:

It reminds me of a meeting in Finland.  I alternated kino and comfort, and the girl returned my kino to me but beyond the flirtation did not want to go further.  I think some girls are just afraid to tie up after sex.  That there was attraction but that it blocked on the consequences. 

Or some girls just send mixed signals.

Or less likely, I would say it's a shit test that shouldn't be taken seriously.  Maybe the result would have been the same but you wouldn't have had a heady conversation with her.

 

 

If a girl doesn't want sex, she won't have sex, even if you are naked in a bed with her. If anyone has a technique on this forum, I'd love to hear about it.

 

Don't ask mate.

 

I will have 2 routines here.

Anytime in the conversation :

"My last short relationship was with a super cool girl who (was on erasmus, Estonian, French...) we stayed a few days together. Now she has gone back to her country, we are still good friends.

 

When she says you want sex :

"Yes I want that (think a bit) actually I don't now I changed my mind".

 

It seems that the conversation has become a logical argument. I guess the whole conversation wasn't that serious but when you move from emotion to intellect in the discussion, it's not a good sign.

 

I would agree wity her and keep escalating. And building more confort.

 

Most likely, she would say something like 'you agree with me so why are you touching me?'  And this is the part where I failed to be funny and then got involved in an incredibly heady chat for over an hour.

Maybe I could have said something like, 'I have magical powers and I was trying to transfer them over to you' or anyway something silly.  And then maybe an incredulous, 'you think I want to have sex with you?'

But even though she lived in both Greece and Germany, she had no sexual partners and from what she told me, she had basically only had serious relationships (2 at the age of 29). So maybe it was just always off. 

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2 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

'you agree with me so why are you touching me?' 

"I don't touch you 😁 you ask because you want me to touch you ? But come on ! We are friends ! Stop flirting please" 

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

But even though she lived in both Greece and Germany, she had no sexual partners and from what she told me, she had basically only had serious relationships (2 at the age of 29). So maybe it was just always off. 

Germany, 2 partners... with this information I would also say that it is not necessary to go further. Was she pretty?

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32 minutes ago, Jojo said:

 

"I don't touch you 😁 you ask because you want me to touch you ? But come on ! We are friends ! Stop flirting please" 

 

Germany, 2 partners... with this information I would also say that it is not necessary to go further. Was she pretty?

Not the prettiest girl. But had a pretty good body. I think most would call her a 6. I'm a 5 or a bit lower so it was in my wheelhouse.

The thing is she would just with stone cold seriousness say, 'you are touching me though!' I find it hard to keep up playful banter for long stretches as I said before, it takes extreme mental energy for me. I'm like Luke Skywalker using those extreme force powers at the end of The Last Jedi. Hard to sustain for me.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Tippy said:

The thing is she would just with stone cold seriousness say, 'you are touching me though!' I find it hard to keep up playful banter for long stretches as I said before, it takes extreme mental energy for me. I'm like Luke Skywalker using those extreme force powers at the end of The Last Jedi. Hard to sustain for me.

I know what you mean.

Save your energy (or force)  and NEXT ! 

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Speaking of NEXT

Had another botched date tonight.

Date 2 from a girl I had cold approached in a coffee shop.

Last time, I got her to outside my apartment and she said 'next time' she would come in.

The next time was tonight.

Coffee and chat. Escalation with some touch and some jokes and banter even.

But I made a huge mistake. When we left the coffee shop, I lost where we were. I just wasn't thinking and I didn't realise we were walking somewhere unfamiliar to me.

I tried to kiss her when we were on a quiet street and she said 'I don't want anything.'

I suggested hanging out longer and going somewhere else. She said 'no.' That was that.

I think maybe if I'd lead the way out of the coffee shop instead of allowing myself to get lost (allowing her to then lead the way) it might have worked out.

But the whole thing was weird....she was an hour late, she changed the meeting spot, she flaked on me the day before.  So there were lots of bad signs that she wasn't into things.

Plus, I told her I was leaving in a few days so that must have solidified the doubts she had originally.

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A couple of questions I think I botched a little bit:

'What did you think in the first 3 seconds you met me?' (couldn't think of a satisfying answer)

'What are you thinking about? You look like you want to ask a question?' (struggled to think of a good jokey answer as well) I had already used the joke of 'I worry about all the big questions in life...like what kind of cereal to get' and she repeated the joke here - saving my face a little. I have only a small number of jokes.

She mentioned how much she liked talking to me and I ended up just going along and saying I liked talking to her too. Maybe should have had a better comment on that.

'What do you want to do that you haven't done?' (attempted some jokey answers but they were too goofy...)

 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Tippy said:

Speaking of NEXT

Had another botched date tonight.

Date 2 from a girl I had cold approached in a coffee shop.

Last time, I got her to outside my apartment and she said 'next time' she would come in.

The next time was tonight.

Coffee and chat. Escalation with some touch and some jokes and banter even.

But I made a huge mistake. When we left the coffee shop, I lost where we were. I just wasn't thinking and I didn't realise we were walking somewhere unfamiliar to me.

I tried to kiss her when we were on a quiet street and she said 'I don't want anything.'

I suggested hanging out longer and going somewhere else. She said 'no.' That was that.

I think maybe if I'd lead the way out of the coffee shop instead of allowing myself to get lost (allowing her to then lead the way) it might have worked out.

But the whole thing was weird....she was an hour late, she changed the meeting spot, she flaked on me the day before.  So there were lots of bad signs that she wasn't into things.

Plus, I told her I was leaving in a few days so that must have solidified the doubts she had originally.

You must be doing something right, as you're at least getting these ladies out on dates.  I get the impression you're not being assertive enough and coming across as needy and desperate.  If the girl is pissing you about, give her one chance, but after that, cut off communication, and make her work for your attention.  Your time is more valuable (even if you have f**k all to do) you have to respect yourself first, because if you don't, no one else will.  Try to look at the situation like she has to impress you, not the other way round, obviously be sociable, but have more of a "take it or leave it" attitude.  Don't over think things.

Did you build up to the kiss with some verbal/physical escalation?  If you just plant it on her from out of nowhere, it will come across as awkward and uncalibrated.  I think generally, just try to take control a bit more, also, there's nothing wrong with being self-deprecating, but don't over do it, otherwise she'll think you lack confidence.  Try to sort out your logistics before hand, if you do get lost, just go on Google Maps.

 

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5 minutes ago, HaveACuppaTea said:

You must be doing something right, as you're at least getting these ladies out on dates.  I get the impression you're not being assertive enough and coming across as needy and desperate.  If the girl is pissing you about, give her one chance, but after that, cut off communication, and make her work for your attention.  Your time is more valuable (even if you have f**k all to do) you have to respect yourself first, because if you don't, no one else will.  Try to look at the situation like she has to impress you, not the other way round, obviously be sociable, but have more of a "take it or leave it" attitude.  Don't over think things.

Did you build up to the kiss with some verbal/physical escalation?  If you just plant it on her from out of nowhere, it will come across as awkward and uncalibrated.  I think generally, just try to take control a bit more, also, there's nothing wrong with being self-deprecating, but don't over do it, otherwise she'll think you lack confidence.  Try to sort out your logistics before hand, if you do get lost, just go on Google Maps.

 

Interesting point.

It's tough for me...the distinction between 'assertive' and 'needy and desperate.'

In both of them you are going for what you want.

I did have the logistics planned out but she changed it all by changing the meeting spot. I then compounded that issue by losing my way. Maybe I could have insisted we stick to MY plan.

Same with when I suggested the venue shift. She said she wanted to stay there longer.

In retrospect, I think she did that on purpose to make it 'too late' for us to hang out longer/bounce to another place.

So in a way I think she quite carefully schemed evading intimacy with me while still coming across like a reasonable gal. But maybe I am overthinking it.

There was some physical escalation yeah and I think verbally she stated several times she liked me. Found me funny/interesting etc...

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Tippy said:

Interesting point.

It's tough for me...the distinction between 'assertive' and 'needy and desperate.'

In both of them you are going for what you want.

I did have the logistics planned out but she changed it all by changing the meeting spot. I then compounded that issue by losing my way. Maybe I could have insisted we stick to MY plan.

Same with when I suggested the venue shift. She said she wanted to stay there longer.

In retrospect, I think she did that on purpose to make it 'too late' for us to hang out longer/bounce to another place.

So in a way I think she quite carefully schemed evading intimacy with me while still coming across like a reasonable gal. But maybe I am overthinking it.

There was some physical escalation yeah and I think verbally she stated several times she liked me. Found me funny/interesting etc...

Well, yeah, you've got to expect some "shit tests", she's not going to make it easy for you.  With the suggested venue shift, did you ask her if she wanted to leave that venue, or did you say something along the lines of "right, let's go, there's another cool place I want to take you" (another bar/pub maybe) or "I know a place with free drinks and great music!" (this is your apartment, if you really think it's on, obviously don't tell her that).

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On 7/4/2021 at 2:51 PM, Mr. Tippy said:

Alright so today, did about 5 sets in the morning. Nothing really came of it.

Girl walks past me with headphones on. Gives me an IOI so I open with her. Ask her if there is a big supermarket near here.

She goes with me to the supermarket (even though she buys nothing) and we chat the whole time. I get her number at the end and arrange a date for that evening. When I said goodbye, I broke the touch barrier by holding her hand and covering the hand with the other. I lingered there for a while and she went with it/was receptive.

Even she said, 'we can go for a date later' when I got her digits so I thought 'this might be on.'

We get to location one and I start escalation during the chat. I started with putting my hand over her tattoo on her wrist when I asked about that. I mentioned she had fingers like pianists and did the hand comparison size thing. I made a comment about her being thin and gave a little thigh squeeze. I also stroked her shoulder a bit. I also laid my hand over her back at one point. Maybe this was overkill and one or two of these things would have been fine.

Anyway, at one point she stops me and says 'you're doing this' and stroked my shoulder and then said, 'I don't know why you're doing this. This is like a romantic thing.'

I said, 'what? We're friends' (maybe I shouldn't have said that)

She said, 'friends don't do this.' (stroking my shoulder again). I asked her if she wanted me to stop. She said yes and so I did.

I then pretending I didn't really know what she was talking about (again maybe not a good idea)

Then she said, 'listen. I think you've got the wrong idea. I just want to be friends. I don't want a one night stand or a short term relationship. What you're doing seems like you want that'

I mentioned that I thought it was weird she wanted to go on a trip to the beach with me just as a friend (she mentioned this earlier).

Then she said that was totally normal.

I then called her out for wanting the relationship totally on her terms (this sounds a bit serious but she found it somewhat amusing a point). I mentioned that it was OK in her eyes for me to sacrifice what I want for her, but she couldn't do the same - so it was imbalanced.

She started talking about how much foreigners just want sex and one night stands and people in her country (place in the Balkans) people don't do that. Nobody she knows does that. And she hates it.

She then made the point that if I wasn't with her, I'd just be with somebody else. If I didn't talk to her, I'd just talk to someone else. She said I just wanted a girlfriend and anyone would be OK for me and there are other girls like her I could meet.

She then asked me directly if I had been on any other dates with local girls her, to which I reluctantly said I had.

She told me if she felt a spark with someone, then that was different and maybe she would consider a relationship. I asked her if she felt a spark with me. She said no. I asked her why she came out then, and she said that she would be afraid to go out with someone she had a spark with. She only came out with me because she did NOT feel a spark and wanted to be friends with me (painful to hear but there you go).

I didn't really want to get embroiled in this lengthy chat about being friends with a girl and the benefits of that. And I kept thinking, 'is this a test?' But from what she told me she really does take chastity very very seriously and doesn't believe in casual sex. 

But even then I think, 'maybe if I'd said X I could have saved this date' or 'If I had better game, I'd have turned things around.'

After that long chat ended, the tension was taken out of the date. We still hung out for a few hours I guess as platonic friends - so I guess she 'won'

The only touch after that was a final hand hold and hug goodbye.

I tend to think some girls are very conservative and there's little that can be done, but I'm sure there are masters who would have been able to turn this or said the right things maybe to keep it playful and light instead of an almost like two lawyers going at it type situation.

So a long post but I genuinely would like feedback on a few things:

1) dating very conservative girls (do you 'adapt to their frame' or what exactly is best?)

2) When you are called out for touch

3) When a girl almost immediately starts talking about how much she hates casual sex/one night stands  (and can it be turned?)

Maybe this really was just a failure waiting to happen....

In a way I am glad to know within the first hour of the date instead of at the kiss close attempt of date 2 but still...

I'm really quite bad at escalation in general and tend to either not do it at all or sort of overdo it in an attempt to overcompensate for a previous date failure.

 

That is a really weird date. And it was a date and she knows it. Stay away from girls like this. There is a lot of Social Justice crap flying around and if your not careful it might hit you too.

 

Edited by PerpetualTraveler
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I think you've already done a proper post-mortem. I'll see if I can add anything brief:

You killed it with the "We're friends" line. She then followed its next logical conclusion: if we're friends, then let's act like friends; the only remedy--I can think of--is to have expressed sincerity after the fact: "Hey, I know I said that thing about us being friends; it would seem as if I've put my foot in my mouth; truthfully, I think you're absolutely beautiful." I dunno. Just be honest. That's why she liked you enough for the date; you were assertive and sincere; then you gave her this wishy-washy line about friendship.

From the remainder, I think you're trying to hard for wit. It should roll off the tongue naturally rather than--like puke--splatter and fleck a person.

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I wonder how your interactions are going until you set the date.  

What you say to her to approach her, the signals she sends, the topics of conversation, the duration of the interaction ...

Maybe there are factors that influence the behavior of girls.

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2 hours ago, maurice_bendrix said:

It should roll off the tongue naturally rather than--like puke--splatter and fleck a person.

I just imagined her blinking with little flecks of puke in her hair.  Neck recoiled like a snake, bits of carrot infested puke hanging from eyebrow. 😄

I'm willing to bet all of this began because when you attempted to escalate you displayed obvious fear and hesitation in your actions.  Moreover, when she called you out on it you reacted to it.

If you genuinley don't care you hardly ever get called out.  If you do, your natural response should be :

"Don't be a retard.  Anyway I cannot help myself, I like you"

Then launch into her again 5-10 minutes later. 👊😍

Truth is if she acts like miss fancy pants too much you are not getting anywhere near that sweet sweet pussy.  At this point I'd lose interest and cut it short.  What's the point otherwise? It's disrespectful to you as a man.

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50 minutes ago, Jojo said:

I wonder how your interactions are going until you set the date.  

What you say to her to approach her, the signals she sends, the topics of conversation, the duration of the interaction ...

Maybe there are factors that influence the behavior of girls.

I go indirect in the streets.

Topic tends to be the country I'm in now as the base line for most of the chat. It certainly isn't a sexual or suggestive chat in the streets. Though I do ask stuff like 'are you married?'.

I am also in a pretty conservative country so that has to be factored in.

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19 minutes ago, Steve Jabba said:

I just imagined her blinking with little flecks of puke in her hair.  Neck recoiled like a snake, bits of carrot infested puke hanging from eyebrow. 😄

I'm willing to bet all of this began because when you attempted to escalate you displayed obvious fear and hesitation in your actions.  Moreover, when she called you out on it you reacted to it.

If you genuinley don't care you hardly ever get called out.  If you do, your natural response should be :

"Don't be a retard.  Anyway I cannot help myself, I like you"

Then launch into her again 5-10 minutes later. 👊😍

Truth is if she acts like miss fancy pants too much you are not getting anywhere near that sweet sweet pussy.  At this point I'd lose interest and cut it short.  What's the point otherwise? It's disrespectful to you as a man.

Interesting.

I thought it wasn't great to show your hand by saying 'I like you.' Anyway, from what I know about her she would say something like, 'you've only just met me' or 'you only like my appearance' or 'why do you like me?' and though joke answers might be good,  I often botch my spontaneous 'jokes.'

I thought it was better to keep some illusion up as to whether you do actually like them or not basically. Even though it's all obviously clear reading between the lines.

 

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Just now, Mr. Tippy said:

I thought it wasn't great to show your hand by saying 'I like you.'

Nah that's wrong. 

You're getting stuck in the weeds and trying to think of it as a flowchart.  It doesn't work that way.  You need to start at the beginning and work on some core attractive masculine traits, then all of this won't be an issue.

Read up on some of the previous stuff I've written / videos I've made.  Avoid manospehere garbage, the majority are buffoons and insecure little boys with little experience.

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51 minutes ago, Steve Jabba said:

Nah that's wrong. 

You're getting stuck in the weeds and trying to think of it as a flowchart.  It doesn't work that way.  You need to start at the beginning and work on some core attractive masculine traits, then all of this won't be an issue.

Read up on some of the previous stuff I've written / videos I've made.  Avoid manospehere garbage, the majority are buffoons and insecure little boys with little experience.

Pretty accurate I'm afraid to say.

Reminds me of that John Lennon song 'crippled inside.' Maybe a bit of a melodramatic reference point, but still.

Although I have 'faced my fears' doing multiple rounds of hundred approaches, it doesn't mean much when there are other massively neglected issues. In fact, I still have the problem of putting too much of my self-esteem on whether girls like me or not. Though isn't this natural to a point? We all want to be attractive to women and what man isn't ego damaged when he finds out he is not?

Still, I've made some progress. Getting dates from cold approach (even ones with no conclusion) would not have seemed feasible to me 6 months ago.

Edited by Mr. Tippy
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9 hours ago, HaveACuppaTea said:

Well, yeah, you've got to expect some "shit tests", she's not going to make it easy for you.  With the suggested venue shift, did you ask her if she wanted to leave that venue, or did you say something along the lines of "right, let's go, there's another cool place I want to take you" (another bar/pub maybe) or "I know a place with free drinks and great music!" (this is your apartment, if you really think it's on, obviously don't tell her that).

The thing with this girl. Well, she looked like Meg White if you're into that (I am, personally).

It was one of those 'we have so much in common' types. 'Woah, you like Seinfeld and Woody Allen and Patrice O'Neal and Louis CK? And you like Nirvana too? That's mindblowing that we love all the same stuff!'

But I have been bitten by this in the past because it's too intellectual. 

Most of the girls I have actually dated or slept with have been girls I had basically no shared cultural interests with (with the exception of having maybe seen a few Disney movies).

If you love all the same stuff you like the girl more as you would a random male friend and the dynamic can be like that too. Talking about THINGS without the emotional connect or the undercurrent of excitement behind the chat.

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1. You never adapt to a girls frame, that is the worst possible thing you can do. She should be in your reality, not the other way around. It doesn't matter if she's conservative or not. 

2. If you're getting called out for touch, it sounds like your calibration is off. I don't think i've ever had a girl call me out  verbally for performing escalation. 

3. Don't pay attention to what she is saying, if she is giving you compliance, then just keep pushing forward and if she doesn't accept it, then roll off and give her some comfort instead. Then try to escalate again later.

I'll also say that It seems that you were giving her mixed signals, for example; the fast escalation but then saying you and were friends. I would also open more direct to begin with. 

 

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Interesting points.

Another question I have difficulty answering is, 'do you see any other girls?' or 'have you been out with other girls recently?'

Lying is bad. Maybe a joke answer is better like 'yeah. 10,000.' I get tripped up by trying to be honest and vague and so I give the game away anyway.

Anyway I had another date tonight with a girl I had disrespected the fuck out of last night by flaking on her last minute to watch the football. This was no 'game' experiment in pissing a woman off to build attraction. This was just utterly vile selfish behaviour on my part.

I messaged her to apologize and meet up and she was down. We went out. Had some drinks. Escalation was smooth (no calling out this time!)

I bring her back to my place with the 'bag drop routine' (I just need to drop off my bag for a minute). She comes up and I asked her for some help with the remote (genuine question).

I get rejected for the kiss on my sofa.

She tells me she has a LDR she does not want to mess up and she has no casual sex.

Lots more touching, neck kissing, hugging, leg rubbing., back rubbing, serious intense pre kiss staring.
 

No kissing or sex though.

 

So that was that. Not really sure what I could have done differently.

I would try it and then stop completely and sit away from her, talk about something else, put music on, show her some fun vids I made as a distraction. Then go back in again...the same thing kept happening.

Eventually it got late and she left.

Any tips on the situation?

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It seems like it was just a case of LMR which can be a nightmare. You did the right think by rolling off and then trying again. Maybe try inviting her back to yours again? If she’s still complying then by all means keep trying

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